Moving forward...if not up.

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (HopeOfZion) — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:24:45 PST

It does indeed help my friend!

I know where I am going (for the most part) with the writing of this book ... at least, the writing of this book has been playing out, in small ways, here a little and there a little, for several years now through gained knowledge and experiences.

Much of what I will be writing about was only theoretical at first. Now, over the last couple of years the Lord has allowed me to see these principles and truths put into practice in at least two different groups. I have seen the fruit of it. And it is good. I see the gifts emerging in people. I see people getting delivered. I see joy, and hope restored again... so, now (at least) I will not carry any doubts or fears as I write these things.

But, as with any time we go to teach something (or write something extensive like a book), the Lord has yet more light and truth, and I imagine that just like in the writing process of "God's Strange Act" there will be new...

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (servant) — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 04:36:23 PST

I like the revelation thing. It is not so much that it has a subtitle...as that you have an understanding of what you are writing about.
If there is a subtitle/subtext....you as the author should know where you are going with the whole concept of this book.

I too, went out and bought the John Adams set. I would recommend it for anyone. He didn't want rebellion. He preferred things being made right and straight without it. But America was suffering actual tyranny. If he could have brought the revelation of what was right to those who were wrong....he would have...he tried to.

If the starting of the kingdom....starts a new dispensation of the church....perhaps it will be because of tyranny and persecution. Peter's day saw those things and had to start afresh.

We seem to have had a rebellion from the RLDS...and its tyranny...for many congregations...not all.
Some just walked away and say we still are members, but disagree....until there...

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (HopeOfZion) — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:44:09 PST

The sub-title has continued to bother me. None of them have seemed right.
Perhaps it simply doesn't need a subtitle?

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (louise) — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:14:18 PST

This is a very informative thread.
Reading the words revolution and rebellion and wondering on them. I picked up my little bible word finder and typed in revolution. It said that that wasen't in there, and was I looking for 'revelation'? It really made me think.
We are wanting revelation, instead of revolution, or rebellion, or protest. And after all that is what makes us true believers. Seeking fresh bread from heaven everyday. Knowing that our steps will be guided by our truest friend.

louise

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (HopeOfZion) — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:42:09 PST

Perhaps you are right.

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (servant) — Wed, 11 Mar 1925 12:58:46 PST

Sorry, I was into the synonym in my mental dictionary...it is listed as such in my book also.
Jesus doesn't seem to be in blatant revolution or rebellion....but He defends when confronted properly.
He just goes about doing what should have been going on...and the other "shepherds" didn't like it.

It is much like people trying to change our constitution....and people standing up and saying it has always been written thus....and it is right.
What looks like a revolution/rebellion of the church moving toward the kingdom....is like I said...more protest-ant, reform-ation, restor-ation...
or in biblical terms....making straight the paths again. It is more of a repentance...a turning/returning...by God's sheep.

The terms revolution/rebellion would be used by those seeing their leadship evaporating.....not by those fixing/returning to correct doctrine.

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (HopeOfZion) — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:24:32 PST

Carrie, love your avatar photo! lol
Yours too, Steve. Just seen your doggie pic after posting this.

<>>
Well - first off, I didn't say rebellion. I said Revolution.
Those who choose tradition over the truth, are in fact, the ones in rebellion to God ... they just do not know it.

Whatever tyranny we face ... (and we do face tyranny), it is really the tyranny of satan, and not a fight against flesh and blood.

The revolution is about deliverance from deception, and entering into the Kingdom.
It's not about fighting with Church leaders. If they choose to unjustly malign those who are coming to the truth, that is their choice.
We don't need to be engaged in debate and strife with them.
Let the good works we do, in humility, be the answer to their charges.

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (servant) — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:02:14 PST

I was mostly trying to be humorous...in a serious sort of way.
What tyranny are we to rebel from? It seems that rebellion sees itself arrayed against real or imagined tyranny. Satan saw God's ways as tyranny and rebelled. America saw England holding them in tyranny and rebelled.

Rebellion carries infrequent good and often bad connotations. I believe that is why the movements have been known as protestant, reformation, and restoration. I'm not sure as choosing whom you will serve.....is the same as rebellion. Perhaps, in the eyes of the currant band of shepherds...it will be viewed as rebellion. But for the sheep...it is getting out of the barn and into the fresh air and being found by the true shepherd....and being led to/building up the kingdom.

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (HopeOfZion) — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:41:01 PST

Those are some great subtitles Gary.
Although I am having a hard time letting go of one part of my original subtitle. I am having this love affair with the word "revolution"
For some reason, I have been drawn to the American Revolution recently ... watching documentaries about it, and it seems to be sticking with me that this is like that ... a total revolution.
Perhaps something like "A Call For Revolution Among All Believers in Christ" or something ....
I had change the subtitle the other day to read, "A Call for Revolution within the Church"
I believe you folks are right that this will need to be addressed to all believers, but I cannot hide our Restoration Heritage in order to make it more palatable for Christians. I will address all believers, but I will also be hitting specific problems in Mormonism, and be referencing some of our Scriptures.
As I think about some more....it may be that the book needs no subtitle....

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (Still Learning) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:29:54 PST

I believe both Doug and Louise are close to how we are feeling. We do feel spiritually hurt, too many past hurts to count. And we are feeling alone, partially perhaps because we presently attend a church that does not believe in the Book of Mormon and D&C as scripture and do not teach from it. But even when we did attend Restoration churches, we felt left out, like we didn't belong. Almost like we were outcasts of sort. But the Lord has spoken to us in the past that big changes are coming, and very soon. And I do believe that the Lord has some big plans for all of us. So when Doug mentioned that the Adversary is working to discourage us, that fits right in with what my wife and I have been getting. Satan knows his time is short and hopes to extend his time if possible by picking at people like us (meaning not only my wife and I but also the people on this board as well as all the other Saints out there who long for a pure and truly restored Church). I'm glad I mentioned...

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (servant) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:09:42 PST

From the Church to the Kingdom....getting God's sheep out of the barn....
From the Church to the Kingdom....getting out of the pew and into the pasture....
From the Church to the Kingdom....getting from fed up to filled up....
From the Church to the Kingdom....getting from traditions to the truth....
From the Church to the Kingdom....getting led by the good shepherd....
From the Church to the Kingdom....getting first things first....(seek ye first the kingdom)

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (everythingsused) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:46:18 PST

"Looks like you two need to get your Avatar's (photos) fixed"

How's this?

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (louise) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:26:51 PST

When us kids were young, we would complain to mom that we hurt sometimes in our arms or legs. And she would say, "those are growing pains". Maybe that thought would work for us spiritually too. When we are caught up in what we don't yet have, it hurts spiritually. But the best is yet ahead of us all. We are growing, because our hearts are set on our goal. And the kingdom is closer today than it has ever been. Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. So as we agree with him and speak and do as he does, it brings growth to our faith. And I know it says in Heb 4;15 that he was tempted in all ways as we are . So he relates to our times of slipping back into feelings alone.
In the e-mail recently I got that one about 'Guidance'....... dancing with God. And it always blesses me to read it over again. So when moving.... if not up, maybe we are just dancing. And that is a wonderfilled time.
And I agree with the thought...

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (HopeOfZion) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:17:01 PST

Looks like you two need to get your Avatar's (photos) fixed.

http://hopeofzion55953.yuku.com/topic/2767

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (HopeOfZion) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:11:53 PST

I know lots of people in a spiritual slump, or depression ....
Someone once told me that when you are feeling oppressed by the Adversary, it is because there is a blessing or break-through on the way from God, and Satan knows it, and is doing everything he can to keep us from being able to receive it.
So - after much tribulation comes the blessing, says the Word.
I guess we need to look up and rejoice, (make a sacrifice of praise in faith) being expectant of the blessing.
That would be spiritual warfare, wouldn't it?
Maybe we just can't take this laying down.

Regarding the subtitle.
How about....

A Call for Revolution in the Church

or

A Call for Revolution in the Churches

???
Any other suggestions?

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (everythingsused) — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:21:56 PST

funny that we all seem to be in somewhat of a spiritual slump. I have been feeling like I am treading water for sometime with no idea which way to go next. I have gotten out of the habit of reading my scriptures but have really been trying to get back into them again- to make it a priority in my life. I have been stuck on faith- it seems that everyone has stories and experiances that show thier faith and nothing seems to be happening for me...I'm sure I will see God's hand in what I am going through after I have gone through it and can step back and see- but right now it's just frustrating.
~carrie

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (Still Learning) — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:32:56 PST

My wife and I are in the same situation as you Doug. Seems like everytime we take a step forward, we take 2 steps backwards. Satan is hard at work trying to keep us down. But we have been through worse and God promised us in the scriptures that he will be by our side no matter what Satan tries on us. Anyway, you and Sharon are always in our prayers.

I really look forward to this book. I believe God is going to use you in this project like never before. I agree with Gary that the focus should be all of Christianity, because all of Christianity is messed up.

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (HopeOfZion) — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:33:17 PST

True... the call from Church to Kingdom is to all, and I believe it may apply to many in that way, but the errors of tradition I need to address are specific to those who are part of the Restoration story. I'm not sure the sub-title will stay as it is .... I have had doubts about it, but the main title is right. However, I feel my ministry is first among Israel, for it is they who hold the keys to the Kingdom, or were given the keys, but have been bound by traditions which do not allow them to use those keys as they should.
We need those keepers of the keys liberated so that the spark of Zion may be lit, and a hope of Zion may begin to bear real fruit.
Israel will have quite a bit to to with the salvation of the rest of the world - through the redemption of Zion, being a city set on a hill, or a light, where the manifestation of the sons of God are to be SEEN (not merely spoken of).
Gentile Christianity will likely never break from their own error until they see...

Re: Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (servant) — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:12:23 PST

"A Call for Revolution in the Restored Church and every sect of Mormonism"

I thought you were getting beyond denominationalism...seems like it should be a broader call to all of christianity. Everywhere we look we see traditions and God's children bound down....lacking spritual freedom....lacking the fullness. You are like Paul writing to the Corinthians....and yet the whole world should read it.

Just the view from my side of the road we are walking.....

Moving forward...if not up.

feeds@kickapps.com (HopeOfZion) — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:02:10 PST

I have been standing still, more or less, spiritually speaking for a couple of months now.
Waiting on God ... trying to see my way up to the next level, insisting on Him showing me where to go from here on the book about Healing.
I have had some small directions .... the Spirit pressing me to get back into the Word of God on a daily basis.
But a depression sort of settled in on me, and I haven't felt very connected to the Lord, or very motivated lately.
I been feeling kind of dead inside ... like I have nothing to give, by way of ministry, right now.

So... I get a phone call, someone needing deliverance.
I didn't know how to say no, so... I agreed to help. (though I felt reluctant)
As the time got closer, and I still felt very inadequate, I expressed to my wife that I didn't really feel up to doing this ministry. Although deliverance ministry is something I actually know quite a bit about, you don't want to confront demons...